Andy Povey is joined by Stephen Reid, Director of Attraction Brand Consultants, to discuss whether suppliers are the backbone of the attractions industry. They explore operator-supplier relationships, innovation, AI, visitor expectations, human connection, and the future challenges facing museums, theme parks, zoos, and family attractions.
Show references:
Stephen Reid - Director of Attraction Brand Consultants
Transcript
Andy Povey: Every attraction starts with an idea. But where do those ideas really come from? When we think about innovation in the attractions industry, it's often the operator or the attraction that gets the credit. But behind every new ride, immersive experience, ticketing platform or guest technology, is a network of suppliers, designers, engineers and creative partners investing time, expertise and resources to solve real operational challenges.
Stephen Reid: You know, to innovate to the level of some of these traction formats that are being put out there, you take some risk. It's a huge risk and I like to see those type of innovators winning.
Andy Povey: This week I'm joined by Stephen Reid, the director of Attraction Brand Consultants, to explore the often overlooked role suppliers play in shaping the future of our industry. We'll discuss why the best attractions are built through collaboration. What separates a supplier from. From a true innovation partner.
Stephen Reid: We've gone past the days of, you know, we go to the local carnival and go on a few rides and we all go home happy with an ice cream cone or whatever it may be.
Andy Povey: And where the next generation of ideas is likely to come from.
Stephen Reid: Kind of exciting and kind of scary all in the same breath, but I think it's common.
Andy Povey: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast for people working in and with visitor attractions. Brought to you by Merac. I'm your host, Andy Povey. Let's get into it.
Stephen Reid: Started back in 1990, really. I was working for local government, Belfast City Council and managing sports and leisure centres. My then boss showed me an article about laser games that he had found in Leisure Week or something like that, and we both ended up in a discussion and that resulted in us taking over one of the sports halls in the centre. I managed and we put in a laser Quest. Believe it or not, that Laser Quest is still operating today, 36 years later. So we made a good decision, I think, and laser games went through this gold rush effect. I haven't seen repeated with anything in the attractions industry in the way that it happened with laser games. I've still been waiting for that new gold rush.
Stephen Reid: But anyway, to cut a long story short, I ended up with experience early on at running them and the company who were selling them thought, right, okay, we need this guy to come and work. Worked for us and he made three offers and then the third one, I decided, okay, I'm off to Manchester. So I ended up in the laser game business for many years and ended up running Megazone Technology for eight years. So that kind of was my introduction into the commercial side of things. My wife worked for one of the big IP houses Hit Entertainment at the time, which is now Mattel, and they had many preschool brands. She was working for them and she was looking for concepts that would layer over the IP that they had.
Stephen Reid: And of course then she started to recruit me and I ended up coming up with concepts and creating concepts for Bob the Builder, Thomas Tank Engine, all that sort of stuff. And that took me down the path of consulting for IP owners and also for parks to a certain extent and various other things. I've created my own attractions. So nowadays as I've kind of got on a bit, it's more consultancy and a lot of the time the consultancy is more business development related. You know, my black book is probably important for people in the industry more than my knowledge. And I've wound back in the number of clients that I have now and I'm focused mainly one and it's right in the sweet spot of design where I love to be.
Andy Povey: Obviously some of the stuff you're working on is confidential and is secret. I wonder if you could describe a project that you've worked on recently just to give our listeners more of a picture of what it is that you do day to day.
Stephen Reid: Yeah, so I'm working on the revamping of a major destination attraction in the UK at the moment, which, you know, as, you know, I can't talk about.
Andy Povey: Of course. Yeah, yeah.
Stephen Reid: I do a lot of work with Kay Elliot and I was introduced to them a year ago at the Barcelona show. I have the show and we had a very interesting conversation. The CEO or the CEO elect as he was at the time, but has now become the Richard Matic. And Richard spent a lot of time talking to me at that Barcelona show and we talked about how they'd been in business forever and a day, 30 odd years, but to the industry at large, they kind of weren't. They didn't have much exposure simply because they did all of Maryland's rollout work across the globe. And you know, maybe, you know, from Merlin's point of view, they kind of kept them as their secret in the background.
Stephen Reid: They didn't, you know, they wanted to be able to tap them. And, you know, I guess Kay Elliot got enough work to keep themselves profitable over those years and didn't have the need to go talking to the remainder of the industry. But one of my rules is to kind of get them that exposure globally. And it's been very easy because there's some nuggets of gold in there. Richard Maddock himself has been over 30 years in K. Elliot and he's very much a thinking man. He's a very intelligent man and he's now writing white papers. He did one recently, the Immersive Influence and that's been picked up. He spoke at WXO about it. So for me he's really easy to get the exposure.
Stephen Reid: He's writing for Blooloop and articles on behalf of Kay Elliot and we're moving forward with him speaking on different platforms. So it's an easy one for me in that the credibility that comes with a 40 year old architectural practice is fairly unique.
Andy Povey: Absolutely.
Stephen Reid: And of course they've got a credentials deck which just would blow your mind, you know, the amount of projects and the variety of projects. And so I probably am the most under qualified person in their whole sphere, qualified architects and various things like that. So.
Andy Povey: Yeah, well, they do say if you're the brightest person in a room, you're in the wrong room, don't they?
Stephen Reid: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You're not going to learn anything.
Andy Povey: And I know exactly what you mean when you describe the. The environment of working for Merlin. I was there for 18 years or the two sort of group and then Merlin. And because it's so vast, you don't expect there to be an outside world. Everything you want is in that same ecosystem. You're working very much on the supply side at the mom. Talk to me about things you've done on the operator side and where you've helped operators with their projects.
Stephen Reid: I love the operating scene around the world. And because I've created product and had to go and sell it to operators, I had to get under the skin of what an operator's issues and problems are and understand where the gaps are and where possibly I can create solutions. And those are for me, some of the best conversations I've had. And they have been, I remember I had a Zoo product and I targeted North America. And of course you can't go in the middle of their season. They chase you if you go in the middle of the season. So I find myself walking around places like Indianapolis Zoo in February and wondering if I'll die of exposure between the car and the office because the snow's blowing across an icy car park.
Stephen Reid: And the operators then send to me when I get there, now do you want to walk around or will we do this on the map? But some of the best conversations I've had where I've got the insights into industry has been with some operator who's taking the time to walk around the park and talk to me about his park and talk to me about the things that they love about the park and tell me the things I'd like to change. And when you get into those kind of conversations as a supplier, then you can see where can I help this client. And you know that from the ticketing side of things.
Stephen Reid: And solutions, it's always been collaborative solutions for me and I see the two sides of the, and I'm going to say two sides, I see two sides of the industry. You know, there's the operators who by nature of what they do create problems that you know, no one could foresee, you know, if they're too successful, if too many people have got queuing systems, all of the above, you know, how do we expand it, you know, what do we do with, do we just buy another roller coaster or do we buy. Build the biggest and best one? And so that balance between what the operator needs and what the supplier can supply.
Stephen Reid: My frustration sometimes is that sometimes I feel that from comments that are made and that sometimes from trade from associations as well, that there's a two tier system when actually we all are part of the same ecosystem, we're all part of the same industry. And sharing the information to Wes is the way to bring that industry forward. Not sit in your silos of we're operators and we'll talk to operators. If you're going to just talk to operators, that's kind of a little narrow bond actually. You'll probably just end up talking about your problems.
Stephen Reid: But if you're including the supply people from the industry and the service side of things then it becomes more integrated and the innovation that comes from that will be as a result of those challenges and some supplier putting his money in it where his mouth is and doing a bit of research and development and developing a product that as he sees fits the problem an attraction operator has. And so for me it's an equal thing. But where I have challenges with it and the people who know me well know that I'm not short of an opinion or two. But I try my best. As I've got older, I've tried keeping my mouth shut to stop myself getting into too much trouble. But, but occasionally. So I got to.
Stephen Reid: I will tell you an incident which happened to me recently. I was at a, an industry event and it was, let's say it was an institution as opposed to a theme park. Yeah. And the head of that institution was there and the head, it was run by one of the trade associations, a very good one. And the lady who runs it, who I love the bits and thinks she's absolutely brilliant. She introduced me to the CEO of this institution who was very much, you know, very well spoken. And so I was introduced and his question to me was at the, said that, oh, and which institution are you from?
Stephen Reid: And I had a bit of a pause for a second or two because I was thinking, not sure what institutions I could join voluntarily, maybe a few would commit me, but you know, but anyway, I kind of had to quickly regroup and I said to him, look, I'm from the supply side of the industry. And he made a gesture with the back of his hand and we wave me off as if to say, oh, like I was an alien species or didn't belong in the room. So that, and it's not, it wouldn't be the only time I've kind of encountered that. I feel that some of our structure around trade associations puts suppliers sometimes as second class citizens in them, not them all, you know, and there are some brilliant trade associations out there.
Stephen Reid: But again, it's the suppliers who put their hands in their pocket, it's the suppliers who are sponsoring the events. And yet there's a definite difference in some organisations about operators versus suppliers.
Andy Povey: I agree with you 100%, Steven. I've experienced the same myself and yeah, but actually I think some of that is learned behaviour in response to behaviour by some suppliers.
Stephen Reid: Possibly.
Andy Povey: So I was on an interview, a discussion with an institution or an association with one of my competitors, the head of marketing from my competitor. And you know, this industry, everyone's very friendly and it's not, we're not really competing. And because this person was relatively new to their role and they came from a marketing background rather than an attractions background, their questions were all around, how many leads will I get from going to this event? What will be my return on investment from going to this event? And that's just not the way these associations work.
Stephen Reid: No.
Andy Povey: So if people are being sent along to a networking event, a conference or a trade show or an exhibition, whatever, with the expectation they're going to walk away with a load of orders, then that's possibly what's creating the response that you and I have both experienced.
Stephen Reid: Yeah, I think you're probably right. And you've reminded me of something which through my short time with KLA I've learned. You know, Richard might have captured this for me. Really, if you imagine that an architectural practice, generally they spend their time tendering for work along with other people. And if they get it. But, you know, he quickly determined the difference in the LBE market is everything's relational. Very few things are tendered in the way that, you know, a hospital building would be or anything else. So it's relationship building and it's trust and that relationship which leads to the work. And those relationships, as, you know, take time to build up and they're valuable and precious and, you know, so that's for. That's where it comes from.
Stephen Reid: And I agree there are probably people who look at it and go, well, you know, why haven't they got a database of all of the buyers in such and such an organisation? I understand that.
Andy Povey: Yeah. I mean, your database is probably like mine and it's between my two ears.
Stephen Reid: Yeah, it does. I keep a lot of stuff up there.
Andy Povey: Do you think suppliers naturally have a different perspective because they're working across multiple venues and multiple markets?
Stephen Reid: Absolutely, Andy. I think in that bit of it, all of those conversations they're having with varying different sectors across industries, there are lessons to be learned. If you jumped into another industry for, you know, a month, you'd come away and there would be bits of that, you'd go, okay, that transfers over to here.
Andy Povey: Yeah.
Stephen Reid: It's the same, I think, for talking to different operators and different in different sections of the bit of the attractions industry. Even then, that makes you a valuable commodity because you know stuff and you're hearing stuff, and therefore, when you're having your relationship with a particular client, you can, you know, impart that bit of knowledge to them and that bit of different way of thinking and it makes you a more valuable supplier, you know, because of that.
Andy Povey: I was down in Cornwall in Porthcurno Telegraph Museum or the National Museum of Communications last week, and it became apparent just from chatting to the team there, that actually some of their requirements are very similar to a small stately home we work with in North Yorkshire.
Stephen Reid: Right.
Andy Povey: And there's no way that these two people would ever have met each other. The two organisations would never have met each other because they're probably 300, 400 miles away and in completely different segments of the. Although they're both museums, but completely different segments of museums industry. So you're completely right, or I completely agree with you, having that different approach and understanding the many different venues and attractions and operations that we all encounter every day. It's going to be really valuable.
Stephen Reid: Yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean, sometimes, and you know this as well, when we are talking to potential clients or clients, there's things that come out of our heads, especially those of us who've been around the industry for a long time. You know, we don't have to be super intelligent people to retain the very basic information we'll learn along the way and the experiences that we've gained and then parting those helps you and it helps the client.
Andy Povey: I think for us both to have been doing this for as long as we both have, then we obviously enjoy what we're doing. We're interested in everything that's going on.
Stephen Reid: Totally. For me, there's a couple of things. First of all, there's nothing that I like better than an old chin wag with somebody and having another, especially of a two word beer, you know, so the networking with people, it isn't a chore for me. I look forward to it. I used to talk to people who dreaded trade shows. When I actually felt like I was going on holidays, going to a trade show, I loved it because I loved the buzz of it. I loved that I was going to get meet new people. I loved that, you know, was going to get meeting old friends and everything else about it. So even now, you know, 35 years in or 36 years in, I still love it. Like I'm. I'm buzzed.
Stephen Reid: I'm kind of buzzed about IAAPA and London and kind of getting ready for that and you know, love it.
Andy Povey: So in your, I suppose in more recent history, what was the most innovative project you've worked on or that you've seen? Maybe not necessarily.
Stephen Reid: You know, there's lots of things I see that's innovative. I think the one with the hugest impact globally for me is the sphere in Las Vegas. I think because it took something which was essentially a performance space and turned it into more. It's an attraction because of all of the technology it's used and the way that it's used it. And it's more than its kind of sum of parts. And it's spectacular in a scale. Some of the stuff that's been done there in that immersive way that they've done it, I think will roll through. It'll have an impact with other attractions as well.
Andy Povey: And I think what they've got right there is that they're not just using technology for its own sake.
Stephen Reid: 100%. I used to say this because I came through laser games was highly technical and you know, computer and software and circuit boards and all sorts of stuff. And when I started creating my own attraction formats, I kind of looked at technology as a painter's palette. You know, it's set over there, the colors are over there. And you had to get the narrative, you had to get the compelling proposition right first. And then technology, if it allows you to deliver that, then it's worth bringing in. But technology, just throwing technology at stuff and throwing screens at stuff. And you see this more and more as technologies got cheaper. Lots of people think that technology is the attraction, but it's not. It's just a means of delivering a message.
Stephen Reid: You know, I hate to see that because I don't like to see failure in the industry. I like to see success, and I like to see success where the innovators have risked. You know, they innovate to the level of some of these traction formats that are being put out there. You take some risk, it's a huge risk. And I like to see those type of innovators winning. But quite often you read about the disasters and they're not good for the industry. They're only good for the industry in the other people who haven't invested learn. They learn by their mistakes, by other people's expensive mistakes. But I hate to see the guys who have invested an innovator losing the. You know, it's. That's got to be a painful journey.
Andy Povey: So is having that freedom to fail and that ability to fail that really seed the next thing is. Yes, I don't know who it was that said, if you're not. If you're not making mistakes, you're not trying hard enough.
Stephen Reid: Yeah, I like that. As I say, well, that's good. I must be trying hard enough because I. Every day I make loads of mistakes, I'm doing ones. That's what my wife says.
Andy Povey: What are you anticipating your challenges operators are trying to solve over the next few years?
Stephen Reid: Well, I think they're already. They're already there. Operators are faced with massive rise in costs for all of the reasons that we know. And some of them are global in terms of state of play of wars and all sorts of things. But locally, things like the cost of employing people and all of those costs have rocketed up. But the ticket prices that the operators can charge is based on the competition that's out there. And so they haven't been able to get them up in line with the raising costs. So I think that's a huge challenge. The other challenge is for them that as they go every year, there's more and more competition, more new attraction formats, more new competition for people's time and people's finite money that they have available for these things.
Stephen Reid: And that is hugely challenging both to that the expectation levels that people have now for how their experience happens. You know, we've gone past the days of, you know, we go to the local carnival and go on a few rides and we all go home happy with an ice cream cone or whatever it may be. The expectation levels now are more aligned with curated journeys, managed queue lines, everything managed in advance in the way that the Disney Magic Band tried to do and did to certain success 10 years ago. So I think a lot of the challenges for the operators will come from trying to manage expectations about what happens on the day out, because it's relevant as to how they position themselves in competition to other people. I do some work for a charitable trust in Belfast.
Stephen Reid: It's a Sands museum. It's a W5. And I love them to bits. You know, they're my. When I come back to Northern Ireland, I kind of went and, you know, started talking to them and I've never really left. I'm very passionate about it. But I was talking to the lady who runs it recently. You know, their whole mantra and mission is about education. And she was puzzling on a piece she wanted to present and she told me what it was. I kind of repositioned it for her. I said, look, does it matter why people come here if they go away with an educational message? Surely that's the most important bit because. And this is relevant to our other conversation.
Stephen Reid: So, you know, a parent sitting at home with a couple of kids is not at the top of her list, Is not. Is it educational? Right. It's where can I get value for money? Where can I get them entertained for four hours? We're going to put them where it's dry, in our case over here, a lot of times wet. So is it indoors? All of those tick boxes first. And then I pointed out to her that, look, here's the good news. There's a halo effect for some parents that when they're chatting to their friends about it, they just haven't taken them down to a trampoline park, they've taken them the W5 Discovery Centre. And it's educational, but it wasn't the reason that.
Stephen Reid: It wasn't the main important reason for going there, because very rarely would that come up as your number one reason for wanting to go to the destination. So it's always interesting how you position your own facility, what is it you're offering to the public, because that's the most important. But it's those people that are sitting at home making a decision to spend money and all of these Things that are out there. I also heard a great comment a few years ago and it was from Michael Collins, from ldp.
Stephen Reid: And Michael, who I respect very much, was making the point that it doesn't matter whether you're in a museum, a zoo or whatever it may be, you're all competing against each other, they're all attractions and you're all competing for the same finite amount of money that there is in the economy. And when you look at it like that, then it changes your perspective on how you market yourself to your potential audience.
Andy Povey: Looking ahead to what's coming next after the spheres become commonplace and we've got them everywhere, what's the next trend that's coming out? Where's the next wave innovation coming from?
Stephen Reid: There's a bit of me wishes I had that crystal ball, you know, to go back to that. Absolutely. To go back to that laser game, Des and recreate that again. But here's what I do think is maybe it's a challenge and maybe it's an opportunity. I think AI's here and it's doing certain stuff at the moment and it's moving at a rapid pace. And I believe that AI will integrate many different platforms seamlessly in our own personal lives as well as specifically in the attractions market. So I mentioned earlier on that you know the Disney Magic band where you pre registered, you created your own narrative bands for the day and you turned up and if you went into the restaurant, it knew you were there and what you'd ordered and all that sort of stuff.
Stephen Reid: Imagine integration to the level where instead of having a magic band, that AI had access to the platforms of O2 and all of the mobile providers had access to the ticketing and queueing system in Alton Towers, for instance. And imagine real time adjustment that an operator didn't have to make. So imagine two families are arriving at Alton Towers in a car. One of them's 20 minutes early and one of them's 20 minutes late. Imagine if the integration was such that the system could go, okay, I'm going to move you forward in the queue lane, move you back in the queue lane. Because both problems, being late and being early provide the operator with some challenges and for varying different reasons. It could be queuing systems, it could be whatever it may be, guest flow in the park.
Stephen Reid: I think that AI, eventually, and I don't mean when I say eventually, I mean in a few years time, I think AI will have the ability with some clever people to integrate so many platforms that it will become one seamless platform. And that is going to affect me when I go and do my groceries at Tesco's and you name it, transport, whatever else it may be. And that will just become one big, seamless automated management, a bit like air traffic control, you know, instead of having operators going, oh, that plane's late and that plan's early. It will be automated. And, well, like that, for me, is kind of exciting and kind of scary all in the same breath. But I think it's common. I think that level of integration will come.
Andy Povey: Yeah, I agree completely. And if there is anyone from my development team listening to this, then you just received your task for the next 12 months. What was the one trend that everyone's talking about that you think is massively overrated and that you yet to be convinced by.
Stephen Reid: Things that are overrated? Sometimes the terminology, you know, the word immersive, you know, I have an immersive kitchen and I have an immersive bathroom, because when I go in there, I'm enclosed in the world of the kitchen and the cooking utensils and everything else. And I get a little bit tired of that tagline. It's hard to differentiate.
Andy Povey: Well, interestingly, what's the opposite of immersive? What's the opposite in the attractions world, what is there that it's unimmersive?
Stephen Reid: So, fascinatingly for me, if you ask me, that in a different way, I have seen other disciplines amalgamated together with existing attraction formats that make an immense difference. I went to a Christmas event for NFAN in the National Farm Attractions Network. And I came away from that Andy thinking, okay, I know farmers are innovative, they have to be. But hey, ho, I've just been at the best Christmas event, Santa event that I've ever been at anywhere. And I ran them in attractions. I've seen everybody else's in attractions. And simply what they had done was instead of figuring out, right, we're going to have a Santa there and everything else, they brought in a theater company, a professional theater company.
Stephen Reid: And that professional theatre company not only created the narrative, they solved issues that exist when people run a Santa. And it was the bottleneck of the Santa. You know, you can have whatever you want around the Santa, but eventually somebody's got to sit down with the Santa. And I've seen that addressed in many different ways. I've seen that address where there's two, three Santas, you know, different routes to get them to Santa. But actually, what theater company had done was brilliant because they had Santa in an area where there was seating for about 30 people.
Stephen Reid: And Santa was asleep on the bench when everybody went in and the pexis or the elves led them in and everybody sat down and then one of the elves woke Santa and he woke up and then he started talking to the audience and. And the kids come up one at a time to get their photograph. But the whole story was condensed in time simply because there was 30 people in there. And so I just went, that's brilliant. That just solved the whole bottle like it sounded. But more importantly, it brought that. Now we're talking immersive experience. It made the whole thing theatrical. And the experience and the value for money for it was amazing. So, you know, the learnings about things, they're not necessarily the big technological advances.
Stephen Reid: There's still plenty of things that people are innovating at the granular level in the industry which are wonderful.
Andy Povey: You know, it's that human connection, isn't it? And that's what we miss. We've done a lot of work recently providing technology to enable people to order food, whether that's the kiosk or a phone, going to order your burger and your chips and your drink to be delivered to your table. While that's great and it's a huge cost saving potential, cost saving in staff and all that kind of stuff, I'm a very firm believer in that. You don't save all of the money. You need to retain some human element to be front of house, to engage with the customer to deliver that service. So you're not just speeding up processes and speeding up transactions. You're changing the role of the person that's doing it.
Andy Povey: You're moving them from being a data entry clock behind a table point to an entertainer in front of a kiosk.
Stephen Reid: Totally. The theatrical part of that interaction is so important to keep people within the narrative that you're trying to create. And it I seen this done 20 years ago where people tried to automate scare attractions and there's still some of them around. You know, you go through some and it doesn't work. And it doesn't work simply because an automated scare isn't looking into the eyes of the people who just to adjust and create the suspense a bit longer and then create the scare. So when you have human interaction, it's much more genuine and real. You can't do it just with technology. And it's the same with all of those other interactions you're talking about, Andy. It's missing the human touch and human connection.
Andy Povey: There's a stat from TripAdvisor and I don't know how up to date this is, but something like 9 out of 10, 5 star reviews for whether it's a hotel, a restaurant, an attraction, whatever. 9 Out of 10, 5 star reviews. Name a person's name.
Stephen Reid: Yes.
Andy Povey: Adam was brilliant serving this. Stephen was fantastic as we came it.
Stephen Reid: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? And we should take note of that. And it's always a danger of technology. We said it earlier on, it's always a danger of technology. If you let technology lead, then it might lead you down the blind alley.
Andy Povey: Really? Absolutely. Final question, Stephen. We ask everybody that comes on the podcast for a recommendation for attraction operators. And not necessarily an attraction operator that's got the budget of the sphere, but if you were running a small. You mentioned NFAN earlier, the National Farm Attractions Network. What would be your recommendation for anybody at NFAN right now? So where's second week of the school holidays? What would. What should they be looking at right now?
Stephen Reid: I'm a big fan of the very unusual family operated attraction. You know, we've gone away from theme parks being family operated. There's a few left and I love them. I love the characters who run them. And you get a different experience when it's family operated as opposed to some 10 has bought it and is operating it. So I think the family operated thing, and that's why I loved the Nafan thing, you know, I kind of felt like it mattered. You could feel that it was palpable, that the owner was there, the owner's family was there and there's just that, you know, extra energy to make the guest day special. They own it's personal. So I would seek out, you know, owner operated stuff.
Stephen Reid: But there are many, there are many good attractions in the uk. We're very blessed and lucky what we've got.
Andy Povey: We aren't we? Thank you, Stephen. Loads of really useful thoughts there. I'm sure we'll pick this conversation up at IAAPA in a few weeks.
If you're looking for the next great idea for your venue, go find Stephen and have a chat. I'm sure to be delighted to share his thoughts and may not try to sell you something. Thank you for listening. I hope you found it useful. If you like what you've heard, please do leave us a review or recommendation. It really helps others to find us.
Today's episode has been produced by Emily and Sami from Plaster, edited by Steve Follen with scheduling and socials by Wenalyn back at Merac HQ. I've been your host, Andy Povey. And until next time, thank you and goodbye.
Skip the Queue is for visitor attraction owners, directors and suppliers who want to improve their organisations and deliver a better experience for their guests. Each episode we speak with inspiring industry experts who share their knowledge of what really makes an attraction successful.
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