The Weather Forecast Debate Every Attraction Is Talking About - Rob Comley and Simon Townsend with Guest Host, Olly Reed

Intro: The Great British weather can sometimes put a dampener on a great day out. But pessimistic weather apps are being blamed for visitors staying away.
Olly Reed: Now, this episode begins with one of the UK's most influential icons. No, not Sir David Attenborough, ELTON John or Mr. Blobby. The icon we're talking about is the rain cloud on your weather app.

Intro: The Met Office has been asked to change the way they display weather forecasts online.

Olly Reed: Over the past few months, what began as a conversation between Chester Zoo and Asset Navigate about how weather apps represent rainy days has grown into a much bigger discussion around visitor behaviour perception and how digital platforms quietly shape real world decisions.

Intro: A mobile app which shows a rain cloud for a given day even though it'll be mostly sunny is putting people off visiting.
Olly Reed: Backed by more than 100 organisations and covered internationally across TV, radio and the press, the campaign has sparked an important debate around the difference between forecast perception and actual visitor experience.

Intro: And it's costing attractions that have spent millions on weatherproofing their parks up to £137,000 a day.

Olly Reed: Hello and welcome to Skip the Queue. I'm your guest host, Olly Reed, marketing director at Navigate. To unpack all that, I'm joined by Rob Comley from Chester Zoo and Simon Townsend from the Even Project.

Olly Reed: Simon? Rob, thanks for joining me. I'm a longtime listener of Skip the Q back in the days when Kelly Molson used to present it and something she used to do was an icebreaker to get things started. So I'm going to bring it back as I've got the power for one episode. Rob, going to come to you first. When you were 6 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Rob Comley: Well, it's an interesting question. What did I want to be when I was 6 years old? Thinking back at it, I probably wanted to be Spider-Man or something similar, but if you're a serious answer, I actually wanted to be a vet from a very young age and also an actor, like the idea of being on stage and presenting myself. So in a weird way, I've gone full circle and now work with animals at Chester Zoo, but also, you know, present on a regular basis. So it's probably found my way back to that.
Olly Reed: Do you have any radioactive spiders at Chester Zoo that you could try and make the first bit happen?
Rob Comley: Unfortunately not. Don't think we do. We haven't quite cut and take that off the list yet. Keep our eyes up.
Olly Reed: No worries. And Simon, what about yourself when you were 6 years old? What did you want to be when you grow up?
Simon Townsend: Well, Rob, it's funny that you mentioned Spider-Man because I was just thinking at 6 years old I probably wanted to be Superman. But I guess, yeah, if I was actually thinking realistic career, joining the military like the Royal Marines or something like that. My dad was in the Royal Marines, so that's probably what I was thinking at that age.
Olly Reed: Wow, interesting. And so I want to be Batman. So between the three of us, we've got it all covered. And then second icebreaker question, unpopular opinion. Now this can be attractions based or anything. Simon, we'll come to you first.
Simon Townsend: I don't know, maybe I really don't like jazz music. That's, that's probably the best I can come with an unpopular opinion there.
Olly Reed: Yeah, no, I don't even think that's that unpopular, Simon, because it is an acquired taste. What about you, Rob?
Rob Comley: This often gets some gasp. I absolutely hate The Lord of the Rings. Not a big Lord of the Rings fan. Much prefer Harry Potter. Harry Potter could in some weird reality be real. It's explained as behind the wall. Whereas The Lord of the Rings is just goblins and elves and dragons and whatever.
Olly Reed: Okay, now I don't know if you heard that listener, but Simon and I did gasp. So you can tell we are Lord of the Rings. Hey, I think there's room for both in the world. So I think we've covered the important basis. Now let's talk about the weather. Now, when it comes to the perfect weather for a day out at your attraction, what does that look like? Rob, we'll come to you first.
Rob Comley: Yeah, it's probably, it probably is, you know, a nice warm, sunny day in the suburb. There has been some research done on this and it gets to a certain temperature, I think it's 28 degrees actually and people start staying away. Although this weekend we broke 30, 33 degrees up here in Chester. We had a really positive weekend actually. I think we had 40,000 people in over the course of at the bank holiday, which is fantastic. Obviously you know, we look at the winter and we'll probably come on to this, but we are starting to get more extreme weather incidents and I think that you know, does affect distant numbers. Of course we having to close a bit more often for severe winds and severe snow. But the flip side of that, we also have to close if there is that severe heat as well.
Rob Comley: We always have to take that the, you know, the animals welfare into account first and foremost. So if it does get too hot, we do close the zoo. So yeah, you know, the perfect weather. And I say this is a big zoo fan. Poppy is, you know, mid-20s, where, you know, it's not too hot, you're not sweating walking around the zoo, but it's not too cold as well.
Olly Reed: Simon, what about you? Is it similar kind of that kind of warm weather, or what about for you?

Simon Townsend: So Eden's quite different, actually. Obviously, being in Cornwall and being really part of a holiday destination affects what people want to do on their weather choices. We're also somewhat perceived as an indoor attraction, despite 60% of our attraction being outdoors with our outdoor gardens. So we tend to be busier when it's raining, particularly through the school holiday periods. So a perfect weather day for us is rain in the morning and then clearing up with a nice sunny, warm afternoon.

Olly Reed: Yeah, I mean, I think that might be my perfect day in general, actually. Yeah. A wet morning and then sun in the afternoon. Interesting. So from the data that, you know, we're seeing, you know, navigate. And Rob, with the campaign as well, around this weather app campaign, which we'll talk about in depth in a second, we're seeing that, you know, a perceived wet weather day or a day can actually drop attendance by 30%. But Simon, so you say actually in terms of that perceived wet weather, that can actually benefit you or how does that work?
Simon Townsend: Yeah, I'd say it could, I think, when the weather forecast is marginal and I know you have that main icon on the front of the app that's forecasting some rain and actually you look at the app and there might only be one or two showers forecast at 7 o' clock or something that can help us. If people are making a decision on where to go, particularly while they're on holiday, then that rain icon may put them off from going to the beach or going to a traditional outdoor attraction and send them our way. But certainly the more certain forecasts of rain or heavy rain in the morning are what really makes a big difference for us.
Olly Reed: And I think that's a really important part of this whole kind of campaign. It's not a case of we want them to say that it's sunny all the time. I think actually across the board, attractions just want that kind of accuracy, really, when it comes to that top line reporting. Rob, obviously, when it comes to Chester Zoo, I think, you know, one of the largest zoos in the uk, you've got lots of outdoor space. So, you know, when it rains, you know, how does that impact you? You know, do the animals will go inside. How does that work?
Rob Comley: Rain does affect us. As with any outdoor attraction, people see that it's going to rain. If it does rain or not, it does put them off from coming to the zoo. You know, you said already, Ollie, that as part of this campaign, we've been banging the drum and saying, see about a 30% drop off. If there is that perception that there is going to be a poor bow forecast, although we've done some data collection since then for a wider range of attractions, and actually it's probably more towards 40 to 50% drop off. So it's having this huge detrimental effect whether it actually rains or not. And the same goes for here up in Chester as well. So we reckon it probably is closer to that 50% drop off, which is, you know, can cost us 137,000 pounds or more every time it happens.
Rob Comley: So it does have a massive effect. And that's money. We are a not for profit charity. So that's money that could be pumped straight back into our conservation mission, you know, go towards some of our UK field projects, it goes to some of our projects abroad or, you know, towards some of our education projects as well. So it does have a huge impact.
Olly Reed: Yeah. And I think that impact is kind of felt across the sector, really. And I think one thing that we're seeing across all kind of attractions is that people are responding to forecasts and things, you know, almost like in real time. And I think their perceived uncertainty at the moment is what people are kind of against. And I think. Do you, do you guys think it. I suppose, have we become less tolerant, you know, of uncertainty as consumers? You know, Simon, what do you think? Is it whether that's in your general day to day life when you're visiting places or what do you think visitors become?
Simon Townsend: Yeah, it's really interesting. I do think if you're drilling down into a weather app, you've probably got a little bit more idea of what's happening. I think it's that headline icon on a particular day that makes the difference, but I do think that the more accuracy that you could have with the weather, the better. But relatively speaking, we live on a relatively small island and I guess it's probably pretty tough to get that kind of by the minute forecast of when it's going to rain like they do in the States. So, yeah, the certainty, I think is important. But for our guests, particularly holidaymakers in Cornwall, I think there's an element of actually we're going to wait and see, look out the window and see before we decide and like you say because.
Olly Reed: Of your location, that's exactly the mindset, right?
Simon Townsend: Yeah. And you know, we've seen over recent years, haven't we, at that move towards a much later booking of tickets. And I think certainly pre Covid where everyone was booking because they had to, we've seen that advanced booking percentage drop. And so rather than being up at 75, 80% where we'd really like it's probably around 50% booking in advance. And then there's just a lot more people will book on the day before they travel or just turn up and pay at the gate. So given a bit of certainty to what's going to happen would maybe help us pin down those advanced bookings a bit easier.
Olly Reed: Yeah, no, definitely. And I think, Rob, you know, whether it's in your day to day life, you know, do you think when it comes to planning days out and with family or what you think Chester Zoo, is that uncertainty kind of an issue as well?
Rob Comley: I think so. I think, you know, we all agree on this podcast that, you know, people do the busy lives, you know, when you wake up first thing in the morning and you're getting the kids ready for the day and esc may want to go out, you know, you want something nice and quick. So people do look at that top line data looking for that certainty, looking for that forecast. So there has been some pulling done since the launch our weather campaign and actually, you know, found 4 in 10 people now don't actually look beyond that top line headline which backs up the campaign asked. And there's some other nice bits of data as well, which I'll read so I don't get it wrong.
Rob Comley: But when shown a very simple frog planned visit, 42% say they would change their plans and 45% say my influence their decision. So eight in 10 people, if they see the negative headline as part of that forecast, they will become more hesitant or negative and potentially not come to our attractions.
Olly Reed: Wow. I mean, like you said, that data is stark really when it comes to the importance of that headline, whether it's on weather apps or social media and things is so important. Rob, you talked about the campaign, so why don't we come on to that now? And something that we cooked up at the bias of conference last year and launched a few months ago. From your point of view, what has been the most surprising part of the campaign? Has it been public reaction, media attention, industry support, you know, what do you think has been the most surprising?
Rob Comley: I think it's a bit of all of that actually all mixed into one. So for those that haven't heard about our campaign, so we've already mentioned, you know, that top line symbol and a weather app, but actually, you know, there is a serious point behind that and is that top line symbol can make like a whole 24 hour day look like a washout, even if it's not. Even if you know, the rain is only forecast, you know, between 6 and 7 o' clock in the morning. Before most of them now staff and at the Zoom, it can put off visitors.
Rob Comley: We started getting together industry support with the support of Navigate Agency, got together a group of over 100 tourist attractions and we wrote to the Met Office, we launched a campaign actually saying let's get around the table and let's discuss this because there must be a better way of presenting the weather. So it was fantastic to see so many attractions coming out and joining the campaign. But then from that as well, we had a long list of other sectors and industries coming out and saying, you know what, this is a problem from us.
Rob Comley: You farm shops that say when there is a misleading forecast, they have excess produce left at the end of the day and it cost them X amount of money or outdoor events, bars and venues and even cricket clubs and chip shops who would know, you know, a misleading whatever forecast would put you off your chippy tea. But the chip fish and chip shop say, yeah, it does happen. So that has been, you know, a huge part of this campaign is just the wide range of support from various different industries that have come out and said, yes, you know, this is something that needs fix.
Olly Reed: And I heard a bird sound whilst you were speaking then. So I, I even the birds agree with you, Rob. That is a vital campaign, you know, and Simon, actually something that I think is really interesting is the weather over the last 10 years, you know, you've been in the industry quite some time, you know, you've worked at some iconic locations obviously, including in project. What do you think has changed in that time? When it comes to weather, days out perception or visitor behaviour, is there anything that you've noticed?
Simon Townsend: Probably the biggest change is that with the increase in the cost of living, it really matters to people that they are getting the most from their day out. You know, we recognize that, you know, for a lot of families, a day out at a top visitor attraction, it can cost them a fair bit of money and that they really then want to get the best value out of that money. And so I think that influences the decision that they make around what the Weather's going to be like, you know, clearly if that money that you spent on that day at home visit attraction is so important to you want the weather to be nice. You don't want unhappy children because they're cold and wet. You want to be able to partake in all of the activities at that attraction.
Simon Townsend: So I think for me, that people have always made a decision where they're going based on the weather, but the importance of that value for money during increased cost of living times really does impact that and how important that decision is. I mean, for me personally, I would probably choose to visit, say, a top theme park on a rainy day, if it's the summer holidays, because I know then that I'm going to not have to queue as long and it probably won't be as busy and I might actually feel like I get better value despite the fact I'm being soaking wet. But that's probably because I'm an industry insider that understands that. And I think for the general public, they just want to be going to an outdoor attraction on a nice warm day and have those lovely photographs of moments with the family.
Olly Reed: That's a really interesting angle. As someone that works in marketing, I wonder if there's, especially with theme parks, when you're queuing for hours and hours to go on a ride, whether actually that should be a campaign. You know, go to theme parks when it's wet because you don't have to queue as much. So, hey, who knows?
Simon Townsend: I think that's probably a risky strategy. I think sometimes you get roller coasters that can't run in the adverse weather. So true. But yeah, I think one of the best days I had with my kids was at Poland park on a really rainy day.
Olly Reed: 100%, You know, and I think, you know, last time I went to Blackpool Pleasure beach, the weather wasn't great, but actually, you know, we. There's so much to do, especially on theme parks. They've got so much indoors as well, actually, but it meant all those outdoor rides. We didn't have to queue. And actually, you know, when I went on for the fifth time, I didn't feel as guilty. So, yeah, no, 100%.
Simon Townsend: And Eden Project, you know, has the. The opposite. We really want people to come here when it's warm and sunny because actually it's fabulous to enjoy the gardens and experience the biomes on such a lovely warm day. There's so much to do that we want to try and change that perception. And I wonder if there's an industry sort of perception that needs to be changed about what attractions are like under different weather. That needs to happen alongside actually how accurate the forecast is.
Olly Reed: Rob, in terms of the forecasts, you know, what we're talking about here isn't about disputing the science, is it? You know, the Met Office and others, they are absolutely the icons of science and the data. But what we're saying is almost like a perception issue, isn't it? So, you know, what's kind of the biggest issue that we're looking to try and combat here?
Rob Comley: So I think it is just that presentation of forecasts. It's, you know, there must be a better way of highlighting the weather, what the weather that you know can be expected. So we see it as a bit of a win, win. So, you know, if you Met Office come around the table and find this and it's a win for them because they can lead the way and do things better, it'll win for the public because they'll get more accurate weather forecasting. That'd be a win for outdoor attractions because we'll get people through the door. And there are examples throughout Europe of better forecasting. So I know, Oddie, you love it when I do my best Norwegian accents. There's a weather, a Norwegian weather app called O, which is just Yr, that's how I'm told it's pronounced.
Rob Comley: And what that does is split a 24 hour day into four six hour periods. So even if it's going to rain between midnight and 6am, the rest of the day will be drive. So there are examples where, you know, we can do this better. So we're really excited and I'm sure we'll move on to what's happening next. We're so excited to get around the table with the Met Office, you know, and to highlight some of these examples and say there are better ways of doing this. Work with us and let's find them together.
Olly Reed: Firstly, I think whoever's told you how to pronounce that app is having you on there because, yeah, it just sounds amazing when you say it, but maybe you're right, maybe it's true. So, in fact, you know, you touched on then, you know, we've been working away behind the scenes. I said we speak on WhatsApp most days, whether it's about childcare issues with our children or about weather apps. So, yeah, what's next for the campaign?
Rob Comley: Yes, we've had some really exciting developments. So after we sent a letter in the Met Office and you know, because of the media storm, no pun intended, but it did last over a week and it was, you know, we had Vanessa Phelps talking about it on Channel 5 to Kat D discussing it on this morning. So it did become that big issue. And because of that media storm, they did come around the table and they've said, okay, let's work together on this. We've been in quite frequent contact and they have agreed a date.
Rob Comley: In the beginning of July, they'll be coming to Chester Zoo and be hosting that round table where we can have those discussions with not only in their Met Office and Tor Attractions, but some leading app developers and government as well. So DCMS are very keen to get involved with this and to be part of that discussion. So we're going to get around that table, as you're saying, find that you find a solution, because there must be one. There are better examples of doing this. So that's. You come together and find.
Olly Reed: I think it's really encouraging that the Met Office are saying, yeah, you know, you guys are the experts when it comes to the visitor experience, so let's get around that table. And I think at the moment it's just about getting as much data as possible, you know. So anyone that's listening here and you've got stories or anecdotal information on how much actually a wrong weather kind of forecast is costing you, yes, definitely get in touch with Rob or myself and yeah, I'm really looking forward to that roundtable. But when it comes to, I suppose what the, you know, a genuinely better weather app might look like, you know, if either of you got ideas on Rob, I know you've touched on the Norwegian model, but Simon, you know, you mentioned about not digging into the data.
Olly Reed: Do you think the top line needs to change then?
Simon Townsend: I think it's interesting Rob mentioned, you know, you can have that symbol of rain on the top app and actually it is only for one hour and it might be a light rain and, you know, and it could be at 9 o', clock, but that's the symbol that they seem to lead with. So maybe there's a way of indicating with those symbols how much of the day is likely to receive rain.
Olly Reed: It's the icon, you know, that's the big one. I think maybe a way or a multiple icon system.
Rob Comley: We don't have all the answers. That's why we want people to come around the table for that discussion. We'll get some WYSI marketers or some app developers to have that discussion to find that answer. But, you know, I am quite fond of a Norwegian model. Who wouldn't be? So I think that was what I'll be pushing for at the roundtable. But it would be good for other people to come with their ideas as well and we'll have that discussion.
Olly Reed: And as a wizard marketer myself, I'm really looking forward to. Yeah, just getting, like you said, around the table and discussing. Actually, there's got to be a better way here. You know, I've got three different weather apps on my phone, all saying different things, but when you dig into the data, they're all saying something quite similar. So, yeah, it's got to be a comms thing. As attraction people, we could be talking about the weather forever and ever. But I think, you know, let's wrap it up with a bit of positivity. This isn't, you know, something that we want to dwell on, but I think there's lots of hope here. So, Rob, when it comes to Chester Zoo, beyond this campaign, you know, what should the sector be watching out for? What's coming up at Chester Zoo? That's exciting.
Rob Comley: Most exciting thing has happened to us over the last 12 months. In particular is the opening of two new areas of the zoo. So half Africa, which is a brand new mixed species habitat which directly highlights our conservation work, particularly in Kenya, that includes a big mixed species habitat with your free roaming giraffes and your ostrich. And alongside that is our brand new the reserves. For the first time ever, you can come and stay at Chester Zoo in our luxury lodges. So they're still extremely popular and if you haven't seen that, I'd recommend coming to see that this summer.
Olly Reed: Yet to receive my invite, Rob, to come and stay in one of the lodges. But that's fine, you know, I'm sure it'll come in the post so slow these days, but I'll try and book at some point. But I mean, they're so sell out that maybe 20, 27 is my year to stay. We'll see. And Simon, obviously you've just celebrated a, a big birthday. 25Th birthday. Not, you know, maybe you have as well. The Eden Project. I was thinking about now. So what's exciting? Around the corner for Eden.
Simon Townsend: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Ollie. I wish I looked 25. You need to double that. I mean, we're having an amazing year. So much going on. Yeah, 25th anniversary year. So we're celebrating that all year. We had a bit of a birthday party in March and Then we followed that with the King and Queen visiting the following week to kind of recognize our 25th anniversary, but also to launch the Big Lunch. The Big Lunch and the big help out is something that we do as a charity across the uk, bringing communities together to have lunch on a particular weekend. It's hugely important. Part of our work of bringing people together and bringing people together in nature. We're really excited about the Eden Sessions, which is mid June to mid July. We've got 10 large outdoor concerts coming up.
Simon Townsend: That's the 24th year of Eden Sessions, so we can celebrate 25 years again next year. But for the Eden Sessions, it's going to be our biggest one this year with acts the likes of Wolf Alice, Snow Patrol, Bowling for Soup, Seamat, Micah Bastille, the list goes on. Becky Hill. So it really is Eden Project at its best. We're such an iconic venue for the large music events and then we're really looking forward to a dinosaur summer. So come and see Dinosaur World live on stage and other surprises around our rainforest biome and around the site. So, I mean, that just takes up to the end of the summer holidays and then we're into the rest of our program. Halloween, wonderful Christmas lights, Father Christmas, etc. So, yeah, so much going on here at the Eden Project this year.
Olly Reed: Yeah. And you. And you do it so uniquely as well. And I've got to say, the Eden Sessions are. I mean there's. I really don't think there's an iconic venue like it, you know, in the uk and the sound and the whole atmosphere, it's like. Yeah, like a festival, but yeah, amazing. And then you get sketched Project as well.
Simon Townsend: Exactly. Yep. Free entry to the Eden Project when you buy a session ticket.
Rob Comley: Yeah, I've never been to the Eden Project. I need to go. And I used to be a big boarding for soup fan when I was younger and I like dinosaurs, so this feels like a very good year to come down.
Simon Townsend: Funnily enough, Rob, in all my years in the industry, I've never been to Chester Zoo either, especially as I was running Longleat for a while. So I don't know how I managed to avoid Chester Zoo, but I must go.
Rob Comley: You have to come visit us.
Olly Reed: You know, that's what I like about my job, you know, bringing people together. And, you know, and also, you know, as you guys were both speaking, that I was just thinking, are there. You know, there's some amazing conservation organisations in the uk, but Chester and Eden are definitely two of the most iconic, bringing people Together in nature is absolutely what you both do in your amazing way. So what was really good, I was worried that were going to be too negative on this podcast, but we've ended up towards the end in a really positive place. So let's continue that. You know, based on everything you guys have just said and your experience, what is giving you optimism about the future of visitor attractions right now? I think optimism is a good place to end. So, Rob, we'll come to you first, an optimistic take.
Rob Comley: Despite the cost of living crisis, which, you know, is affecting people, a lot of people across this country, people are still going out and supporting their local visitor attractions, particularly, you know, their charities like the Eating Project and Chester Zoo, and supporting the conservation while it takes place as well. So, yeah, I think, yeah, it's just so nice to see that people are still supporting their local organizations.
Simon Townsend: Yeah, I mean, I think again, despite the cost of living crisis, I think visitions are in tough times at the moment, fighting for every customer to visit. But what we're trying to do is give people the best possible time and the best possible value for money. And I think that's what hard times do, is really focus you on providing the best possible experience and value for money for our guests. And so that, you know, in. In those better times, economically, the industry benefits from that focus on giving great experiences. And I think when we listen to sentiment, visitor sentiment from organizations like Alva visit attractions, zoos, safari parks, outdoor gardens are really important for people to visit. And there are other leisure activities that drop off the list before visiting visitor destinations. And so that's really important.
Simon Townsend: And there are lots of iconic visit attractions like Chester, Zahu and Eden Project. And it's really important that we are, you know, providing that we're special places, I guess, for people to have special days out. Stealing a line from Bernard Donoghue.
Olly Reed: Exactly. Yeah. I was going to say you're going to credit the man. Yeah, exactly. No. 100%. I think it's really important, isn't it? Because whether it's big, iconic attractions like yourselves or smaller farm parks, museums, these cultural spaces and these places where people come together and make the memories are. Are so vital, not just for, you know, having fun, but almost there's a. I don't know, when it comes to just enjoying your life, you know, these are moments to remember and spend time with people that you know, you quite like, hopefully. Or maybe people you don't like, you know, get into an attraction and maybe see if you can find some common ground 100% agree and thank you so much. And I think there's a tendency for people to assume that attractions versus weather apps is actually, you know, the thing at play here.
Olly Reed: But it's not. I don't, I don't think it is. I think from both of you and what you've said, it's about better communication and giving people the confidence to make better decisions, to go out to more places. And I think, you know, Rob, when we started talking about this issue last year, I'm not sure we thought it was going to go as far and wide as it has, you know, and picked up the momentum. But I think, you know, we're really proud of what's happened so far. So thank you very much for coming together and you definitely have to go and visit each other because you're both fantastic visitor attraction and thank you so much for your time. We'll speak again soon.
Simon Townsend: Thanks so much.
Rob Comley: Thanks, Ollie.
Olly Reed: Thanks for joining me on today's episode and thanks to all 100 attractions who've supported the campaign so far. The farm parks, theme parks, museums and beyond. Thanks to Rob at Chester Zoo and Simon from the Eden Project. I'm also looking forward to their new Eden Project in Morecambe in the nearest future. This episode was written by myself and Sami Entwistle, edited by Steve Folland and produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle from Plaster, as well as Wenalyn Dionaldo from Skip the Queue HQ. If you enjoyed today's episode, please, like share and comment on the episode in your podcast app. Be sure to visit Skiptheque.fm for this episode's transcriptions. And if you're looking for marketing support for your visitor attraction, head to Navigate Agency to find out more. Thanks for listening. I've been your host, Olly Reed. Bye.